Kate ([info]mskatej) wrote,
@ 2007-11-30 09:23:00
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Current mood: excited
Entry tags:batman, comics, fandom, tv: general

Comics love, Dean Winters love, chatter about fandom pairings...
COMICS

I loved Gotham Underground #2, I loved it a lot. Because even though Dick didn't get much dialogue he was such a superstar that he stole the show anyway. He goes undercover as a mini Matches Malone (Freddie Dinardo) because Bruce disappeared and Dick is scared and must find out where he is (SUCH DEVOTION), and then, even though Tim is disapproving of Dick's plan--because it seems to be the same plan that Bruce had, which obviously didn't work, and also, the city will be left unprotected--he also appreciates that Dick is the best boss ever because he gives Timmy lots of freedom and he's all *relaxed* and basically the opposite of Bruce, and not only that, he got the girls to fill in for him while he's undercover. Because Dickie loves the girls! (Almost as much as he loves Bruce, but not quite). *HAPPYSIGH* And of course, Bruce is a total hotass.



~

I wathced the first two episodes of "Oz" last night.

GRIM.

But very entertaining for sure. I'm pleased that Dean Winters is in it because I adore him; a little later in the evening I watched "30 Rock" and he was in it, as Dennis, Liz's loser boyfriend, and god -- SO MUCH LOVE. He's one of those actors who is both incredibly sexy and totally shameless. He always plays characters who shouldn't be remotely likeable but always, always are, because he's so funny and cute.

~

What do you look for in a pairing? I know for me that I need to be able to see canonical evidence of a strong attraction; which only happens when the actors have great chemistry with each other but it also needs to be in the writing. [I love so much that Lex's obsession with Clark is regularly acknowledged on the show and is unwavering, even after seven years. Hell, he said himself that his obsession with Clark will never die. And despite Lex's dangerous love for Clark, Clark can't stay away from him. Now that, to me, is what great slash is made of.]

Is there a common theme in the pairings you like? I am defintiely attracted by forbidden love, opposite personalities, obsession/devotion, a power imbalance. Buffy/Spike, Clark/Lex and Bruce/Dick all have these things in common (they are my top three ever pairings).

Are you fussy? Do you fall for lots of pairings or does it hardly ever happen for you? Because I appear to be absurdly fussy. Most popular pairings in fandom leave me cold, or interest me only fleetingly. Just as in life, I guess. I can have a one night stand with a pairing and it can be fun, but in the morning I'll be all, ew, put some clothes on and get the fuck out of my house. [DC is the exception to this rule, however. All DC pairings seem to work beautifully, much to my delight.]



(63 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]sadface
2007-11-30 11:09 am UTC (link)
LOVE!

For me to care about any pairing for more than ten minutes that characters have to be in love, or have been in love in the past (and are now filled with regretful longing). Or they're like friends but they care about each other a super huge amount (although, this isn't always true and I think really relies on them having chemistry as actors/people and isn't a catch all for all friends ever)

also they have to be hot but really! my fandoms are all media based, everyone is hot.

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 11:23 am UTC (link)
Yes, hotness is essential!

I've found that slashing best friends usually bores me (and sometimes annoys me. Like, can two male characters never just be friends? Must closeness *always* be interpreted as sexual attraction?), and I stand by my opinion that Clark and Lex were never really best friends and never really had a healthy friendship, and the only reason they called each other that was a) because they were confused about their intense attraction to each other and wrongly assumed they were best pals and b) to make fangirls happy.

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(no subject) - [info]sadface, 2007-11-30 11:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mskatej, 2007-11-30 11:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sadface, 2007-11-30 12:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mskatej, 2007-11-30 12:55 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]hils
2007-11-30 11:13 am UTC (link)
I am definitely with you on the dangerous or forbidden love thing. My favourite pairings are Clark/Lex, Buffy/Spike, Jack/James (Potc) and Sawyer/Kate.

Oddly, if the pairings I like become canon I tend to go off them. Buffy and Spike went downhill for me after they started shagging and I used to ship Apollo/Starbuck from BSG until they started having an affair.

LOL!

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 11:32 am UTC (link)
Sawyer/Kate!! Yessssss. I haven't watched Lost in yonks but in the first season I totally shipped those two. Their chemistry was off the scale and that first time he kissed her? HOLY CRAP. Yeah. Sawyer/Kate FTW.

Oddly, if the pairings I like become canon I tend to go off them. Buffy and Spike went downhill for me after they started shagging and I used to ship Apollo/Starbuck from BSG until they started having an affair.

I lost interest in reading Buffy/Spike fic once they started shagging on the show, because I adored the way their relationship played out in canon: it was pretty much the ultimate telling of their story, as far as I was concerned. Hot, wrong, tragic and romantic in all the best ways. It meant, though, that the fic was obsolete, because the show was giving me everything I needed.

Similarly I really like the Apollo/Starbuck love story (they're very hot together) and feel no desire to read fic about them.

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(no subject) - [info]hils, 2007-11-30 11:46 am UTC (Expand)

[info]glammetalkitten
2007-11-30 11:13 am UTC (link)
[DC is the exception to this rule, however. All DC pairings seem to work beautifully, much to my delight.]

I'm exactly the same...I have many, many DC pairings which push my buttons!

Other than that, with fandoms based on films/tv shows I'm fairly fussy in that I usually settle on one pairing I like and have little interest in any others from that show...I count five that I'm really into and will happily read: McKay/Sheppard, and sometimes McKay/Dex (SGA), O'Neill/Jackson (SG-1), Mal/Simon (Firefly) and Jack/Ianto (Torchwood).

ETA: I was going to be lazy and not go to the comic shop this lunchtime but now I see that I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO and will come out with at least 4, by the looks of it (DetC, Batman, TT and GU 2!)

That said, when I look at my favourites for bandfic (and please bear in mind, I refer not to FBR bands but the fandom I quite happily got started in about six years ago!) ? I'll quite happily mix and match any and all members of Metallica, as well as a couple of pairings from Guns n Roses, and I am of the opinion that Jerry Cantrell from Alice in Chains goes with everything!

Edited at 2007-11-30 11:15 am UTC

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 11:45 am UTC (link)
I really didn't see the John/Rodney when I watched SGA. It still amazes me that they're such a popular pairing, although I think compared to Smallville very few shows seem slashy, and I'm not one of those people who sees everything through 'slash goggles'. *shrugs*

YES YOU SHOULD BUY COMICS TODAY. Batman #671 was also really good, and Blue Beetle was cute too. I didn't really understand TT, however. :P

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(no subject) - [info]glammetalkitten, 2007-11-30 11:49 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mskatej, 2007-11-30 01:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]glammetalkitten, 2007-11-30 02:08 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mskatej, 2007-11-30 02:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]glammetalkitten, 2007-11-30 02:21 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mskatej, 2007-11-30 03:08 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]glammetalkitten, 2007-11-30 03:11 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]purplerabbits
2007-11-30 11:24 am UTC (link)
I definitely go for forbidden pairings, so Torchwood, for instance, does nothing for me cos it's all out in the open (also a bit shit, though I secretly still like it.) It's all about the smouldering, really. Buffy/Spike may be the only canonical pairing I go for, cos it was so fucked up...

BTW, I just found out that Ian Mackellan fancied Derek Jacobi at college and Jacobi fancied him back but they did nothing cos they weren't out. I have never wanted RPS before, but...

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 11:54 am UTC (link)
Torchwood, for instance, does nothing for me cos it's all out in the open

I don't watch it but yeah. I never feel like reading fic about canon pairings, because my favourite thing in the world is First Time stories and if the couple's first time has been robbed by canon then it can never be done in fic ever again (unless the author is ignoring canon, which annoys me at the best of times).

BTW, I just found out that Ian Mackellan fancied Derek Jacobi at college and Jacobi fancied him back but they did nothing cos they weren't out. I have never wanted RPS before, but...

omg classic. And sweet! If only they were younger and hotter...

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(no subject) - [info]suzycat, 2007-11-30 08:50 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]laurens_bonanza
2007-11-30 11:50 am UTC (link)
Ryan O'Reily/Dean Winters was always my favourite character on OZ, but just wait until Scott William Winters comes on the show. They're actual brothers and play brothers and they're so sweet together. His portrayal of Cyril just amazes me every time I watch it.

And the guy who plays Alvarez was in Band of Brothers! ♥♥

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 11:57 am UTC (link)
Dean Winters has a brother?! Who is going to be in the show?!! This makes me very happy indeed. <:-P

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(no subject) - [info]suzycat, 2007-11-30 08:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]laurens_bonanza, 2007-11-30 09:34 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]duskwillow
2007-11-30 11:56 am UTC (link)
Oz! ♥
One of my all time favourite tv shows.
It just gets better and better, and more violent. \o/

As for pairings, they have to be interesting. The chemistry has to be obvious. I also enjoy the whole opposites attract thing. Or at least when the couple bickers a lot. Happy couples bore me, I need some sort of tension to constantly be there, even if it's verbal teasing.
I tend to enjoy a lot of couples, but I truly care for only few of them.

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 12:52 pm UTC (link)
I agree that tension is crucial. Without tension there can be no real eroticism, and without eroticism there is no ship. IMO.

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[info]frelling_tralk
2007-11-30 12:33 pm UTC (link)
Yeah...Oz doesn't really get any less depressing :/ But I'm glad that you like it anyway! Ryan and Alvzarez *swoons* And here's a cool bit of trivia! I was watching the original audition tapes, and Said and Adebesi both have English accents in real life :)

And regarding ships, I'm most into Spike/Buffy, Lex/Lana, and Clark/Lex, so I guess that obsession's a big part of the appeal for me *g*

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 12:57 pm UTC (link)
I can't remember anyone's name in Oz yet so I have no clue who you're talking about. :P

Who is that in your icon?

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(no subject) - [info]frelling_tralk, 2007-11-30 01:04 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mskatej, 2007-11-30 01:13 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]radioreverie
2007-11-30 12:41 pm UTC (link)
I'm trying to think of what exactly I like. It's hard to say, because on the surface most of my favorite pairings have very little in common.

But here are a few components:
- Sweetness. This can be out in the open or it can be a surprise, but it has to be present. And what I mean by sweetness is a true sense of caring. This is especially awesome when it comes from unexpected characters, like Spike towards Buffy in BtVS S5, or Illyria towards Wesley in Angel S5. I suppose Logan and Veronica fit into that as well. Actually, come to think of that, there's some of that with Clark and Lois as well on Smallville.

- A complex verbal dynamic. It has to be interesting, whether they're trading barbs or spouting off Shakespeare-worthy monologues at each other. There's nothing more boring than a pairing who really have nothing to say to each other, which is why I find so many popular pairings in fandom confusing.

- A sense of the epic. The characters in the pairing should be somehow extraordinary or odd, something beyond just both being hot. There should be something around them that is grander than just themselves, and that goes for both fictional pairings and RPF.

- Beauty. This doesn't mean "hot", though that can play into it. But if I'm imagining two people embracing, I like for that image in my mind to be something transcendent. So aesthetics are definitely one part; I like pairings that look beautiful together, in the sense of looking like a painting, perhaps. And the other half of it is the sense of beautiful melancholy. Perhaps the word is "bittersweetness". I don't know what I'm talking about.

God, I sound like such a wanker.

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 01:09 pm UTC (link)
Nicely put, and I would say that I like (require?) all those things too.

There is definitely sweetness in the Buffy/Spike and Bruce/Dick dynamic, but I think it's missing from Clark/Lex. They're very rarely sweet to each other and they very rarely show that they care in a positive way. That said, Clark and Lex fit the last three things on your list perfectly. You don't get much more epic than Clark Kent and Lex Luthor and they look extraordinarily beautiful together, particularly in the early seasons.

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(no subject) - [info]radioreverie, 2007-11-30 01:11 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]morganichele
2007-11-30 01:42 pm UTC (link)
It's all about the yearning, for me. The absolute want you see in one character to just be near the other, or to know everything about them. lol. I guess I like it when one (or both) characters are obsessed with the other (I'm not sure what this says about me). :-P
It's funny, because one of my favorites is Brian/Justin from the US Queer as Folk, but some of my favorite scenes from them is when they're broken up and obsessing...*ahem*...thinking about each other.
The Clark/Lex pairing was always appealing to me. Aside from the obvious yearning, there's the fact that they have serious chemistry, as actors, men...whatever. They spark off of each other in scenes, and it's FUN to watch. Plus...hello. They're absolutely gorgeous together.
When the obsession isn't everything, it's all about the pure romance and l-o-v-e *sigh*. lol. I absolutely adored Willow/Tara. But, again, some of my favorite bits with them were when they weren't even together. I love the 'aww' factor in a couple, but I suppose for me, it's mostly about the 'Oooh! Look at how much they want to touch each other, even if they can't!'

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 02:08 pm UTC (link)
I loved Willow/Tara too! When it comes to canon pairings, I'm all about epic romance, yearning, and sexual desire (if I don't get the sense that they want to rip each other's clothes off, I'm not buying it).

but I suppose for me, it's mostly about the 'Oooh! Look at how much they want to touch each other, even if they can't!'

That's it exactly! Other pairings I love for those reasons:

Buffy/Angel
Michael/Sara (Prison Break)
Sydney/Vaughn (Alias)
Lee/Kara (BSG)

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[info]iamzulma
2007-11-30 01:53 pm UTC (link)
i still can't get over the first episode of oz when they burned jon seda's character alive. *shudders*

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 02:10 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that was absolutely hideous. *shudders with you*

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[info]dragontatt
2007-11-30 02:52 pm UTC (link)
Just swooped by to proclaim my Tobias Beecher love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grim yes but you must watch it all.

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 03:12 pm UTC (link)
I'm really glad that Beecher becomes a really awesome character that people love, because I found seeing him suffer in those first few episodes really traumatic.

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(no subject) - [info]dragontatt, 2007-11-30 06:20 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]herself_nyc
2007-11-30 05:16 pm UTC (link)
I definitely go for relationships that feel transgressive. Power imbalances are a big turn on. God I'm so predictable.

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[info]mskatej
2007-11-30 05:22 pm UTC (link)
:D Me too me too. I think there's just something inherently erotic about that kind of dynamic in a relationship.

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[info]azewewish
2007-11-30 05:51 pm UTC (link)
Oh, Oz, one of my all-time TV loves. *draws hearts* It's brutal & tragic & hard to watch, but it's equally as good (in a different way) than The Wire, and the characters are, to a person, exceptionally played out.


Um, as far as pairings, I'm more into the RP side of things, because I find real life relationships more interesting, because I can play with them more. FP pairings tend to have too much canon that has to be adhered to for my taste. But, for the FP pairings that I do adore - Remus/Sirius (HP), James/Jack (POTC), Hoot/Eversmann (BHD), to name a few - there has to be an element of opposites attracting, an overwhelming bond (even if it's antagonistic), and it helps if there's some tragic/angsty background that breaks the characters somewhat so they have to help each other in the rebuilding process. If that makes sense.

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-02 07:39 pm UTC (link)
It does! I find that stuff very appealing as well. Although I'm the opposite of you when it comes to FP vs RP, because I don't really like RPF. I definitely appreciate the appeal for writers (more freedom, as you say) but I'm just not very interested in actors, whereas I do find the characters they're playing endlessly fascinating. Also, I'm not particularly attracted to Michael Rosenbaum but I do find Lex very sexy. :D

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[info]barbaragray1212
2007-11-30 06:07 pm UTC (link)
I'm still a fan of Kirk and Spock, and that's for many a year. My only other permanent pairing's Harry and Draco,so I suppose I might be a little choosy. Clex is my favourite though and I'm sure it still will be long after the show finishes.

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-02 07:40 pm UTC (link)
I've never read and Kirk/Spock; I think I would struggle with it because I don't find either character all that attractive, but one day I should give some a try. Is there a really good, quintessential K/S fic I should read?

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[info]gorgon_mythos
2007-11-30 07:16 pm UTC (link)
*revels in my complete and utter un-fussiness*
If I had to list every pairing I've read, I'd have pages because I can watch a TV show or movie and be like "Oh, they're slashy!". And then I read their fic till I've exhausted the resource or watch something new and say "Oh, they're slashy!" :P

But, common threads are always a pairing that have/are striking a friendship and that the two characters are very tactile. A hand on the shoulder or ruffling someone's hair speaks volumes to me.

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-02 07:42 pm UTC (link)
Yes, it's always thrilling when characters I ship touch each other. I want Clex to hug again soon. SIGH.

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[info]femmenerd
2007-11-30 07:16 pm UTC (link)
I did not know that you 'ship S/B! Will I have to reassess my mental image of you now? (JUST KIDDING.)

I think my 'shipping patterns change. I mean, I know I have them, but there isn't one formula at all.

One thing I find strange is that though I tend not to be into "enemy" of "frenemy" pairings EXCEPT with f/f pairings like Buffy/Faith and Tyra/Lyla. Odd. (And yes, I also shipped S/B, but S/B is kinda slashy in a way. I even wrote it as femslash! Haha.)

And then with het pairings I do have the thing of Brainy Girl/Boy Who Worships/Challenges her. i.e. Anne/Gilbert, Rory/Dean, and Hermione/Ron. And, arguably, my SPN "OTP" which is Sam Winchester and an OFC that I have grown more attached to than....well, certainly any woman who's ever actually been on that show.

I have no patterns with m/m slash I don't think. The two m/m pairings I've probably read the most of are Spike/Angel and Jared/Jensen. ?????

And why exactly am I noting different trends by gender? There hasn't been enough coffee yet for me to ponder that. :P

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-03 09:28 am UTC (link)
I did not know that you 'ship S/B!

Years ago, but yes. They were the pairing that led me to discovering fanfiction on the internets. I knew nothing of fandom at the time, but I was becoming increasingly obsessed with the show, and then the episode "Something Blue" aired on TV. After that, I was obsessed with the idea of Buffy and Spike getting together; the chemistry SMG and JM had was off the scale and they were so damn funny and sexy together. I guess I must have stuck their names into google or something and next thing I knew my dreams of them having dirty sex with each other had COME TRUE. I read a shitload of Buffy/Spike fic until I got sick of it (I'm thinking that the fic I was reading then was Not Good), then didn't properly discover fandom until years later when I accidentally stumbled upon Clex.

:)

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(no subject) - [info]femmenerd, 2007-12-04 12:52 am UTC (Expand)

[info]suzycat
2007-11-30 08:45 pm UTC (link)
OMG Oz. Wait till Beecher/Keller starts. You will DIE. DIE of - well, it's not slash, it's canon. It's like the best love/hate twisted slash ever, only it's canon. CANON! I've only seen the third and fourth seasons. They are DIVINELY GREAT.

30Rock has started here and I agree about DW. He is indeed adorable.

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-03 09:44 am UTC (link)
He really is!

You will DIE. DIE of - well, it's not slash, it's canon. It's like the best love/hate twisted slash ever, only it's canon. CANON!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! That is SO VERY EXCITING.

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[info]serenography
2007-11-30 09:33 pm UTC (link)
It's hard to really put my finger on it, but I guess it comes down to chemistry and ill-fated angst for me and my choice of pairings.

Chemistry - because I have to see and feel something a bit magical and sexy when I watch them together - whether they're loving or fighting, or just having some mundane conversation.

Ill-fated angst - because that just seems to be an element that grabs my heart even beyond the pretty.

My 3 favorite fannish pairings seem to all fit these criteria: Duncan/Methos, Clark/Lana, Clark/Lex.

So glad you're watching OZ. I watched them all when they aired, and not since, so I'm a little sketchy on names and details too. Here's a great site I use for reference, plus it has all the nude scenes.*bonus*
http://acropolisvideo.com/menofoz/

Beecher and Alvarez were my two favorite characters on the show by far, but the O'Reilly brothers are great characters too.

*edited to add link. D'oh!

Edited at 2007-11-30 09:35 pm UTC

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-03 11:34 am UTC (link)
I think there definitely has to be angst in a pairing, because if they can't hurt each other then it's not really love.

Duncan/Methos is...Joan of Arcadia? Should I check that show out or what?

Thanks for the linkage! I'm enjoying the show so far although I find the focus on religion to be a bit odd, and I kind of hope it calms down soon.

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(no subject) - [info]serenography, 2007-12-03 11:47 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jayest
2007-11-30 10:15 pm UTC (link)
too tired (and sick) to write thoughtful stuff on pairings, but just popped in to tell you that I have some freebie comics for you from Blythe, she was doing a throw out and you are the lucky beneficiary.

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-03 11:34 am UTC (link)
YAY ME!! We should hook up soon for drinks and chat.

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[info]chimosa
2007-11-30 11:22 pm UTC (link)
YAY OZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-03 11:35 am UTC (link)
*TWIRLS OZ*

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[info]mediaville
2007-12-02 04:08 pm UTC (link)
I'm so fucking shallow, but there's no use pretending otherwise. What makes a good pairing for me is seriously hot boys. Boys that I would want to make out with for at least 2 hours without a break.

Girl pairings don't do it for me, although sometimes het pairings do.

And I have to be able to at least imagine them hanging out together and kissing. That's why crossover pairings don't usually work for me. Except maybe in RPS, and even then, I'm picky.

Example - I only write Chlark SV fic, but I mainly read Clex fic and SPN Wincest / J2 slash fics. There's no deeper reason for that. I'm too much of a poo-soir to write slash, although I've been "working up to it" for awhile now.

And even with the Clex and the Chlark - it's the Welling that does it for me. Pair him with just about anyone (crazy Kryptonian tentacle monster anyone?) and I'm good. It's just... guh. The face, the mouth, the BODY.

Also, this is my first post in your journal but I, um, am kind of a fangirl of yours. *blushes* Think you'll be writing any few fic soon?

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[info]mskatej
2007-12-03 11:48 am UTC (link)
Y HALO THAR NOOB. :D

Welcome to livejournal! Please stay awhile! It is confusing at first, but you will get the hang of it soon, and if you ever need help/advice/whatnot just ask (you can either email me or comment here with your Qs).

And I have to be able to at least imagine them hanging out together and kissing. That's why crossover pairings don't usually work for me. Except maybe in RPS, and even then, I'm picky.

Yeah, I really can't get into crossover pairings. I'm too much of a canon whore; with fanfic I like the chemistry to be already there before I even start reading.

And even with the Clex and the Chlark - it's the Welling that does it for me. Pair him with just about anyone (crazy Kryptonian tentacle monster anyone?) and I'm good. It's just... guh. The face, the mouth, the BODY.

Baby, you're preaching to the choir! ALL HAIL WELLING.

Also, this is my first post in your journal but I, um, am kind of a fangirl of yours. *blushes*

Aw, make my day why don't you! :-*

Think you'll be writing any few fic soon?

Yes! I am posting fic on December 14 for [info]undermistletoe, and I have another completed fic which I have entered into a competition, but the deadline for that is Jan 15, so I can't post until after that unfortunately. But! Two Clex fics in the next two months from me! WOOT.

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